Q4OS Forum

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Dear Sirs & Ladies,
after testing and using Q4OS for some days/weeks (and beeing _extremely_ content wih it!)  i'm now rather convinced that it will be my os for the future (maybe not immediately, but this will be topic of another thread).
For now, i plan to install it on my productive machine (beside Win), and here are my 2 related questions:

1. On a newer System with UEFI instead of a simple BIOS, is it obligated to use the 64 bit os instead of the 32bit?
On my stick there's 1.8.2 32-bit currently.
(One or two years ago with MINT i had to learn it the hard way - download the iso, prepare the USB-stick: everything twice! -  only the 64 bit version supported UEFI).

2. Since i'm a lazy and practical thinking person  i think about a _simple_ solution, to migrate everything of my home folder (located under /users/<user>) to the new system: Data, mail, some programs, (browser)configurations (!), bookmarks, manuals and so on.
So, first for sure i'll have to proceed the installation process, get the codecs, synaptec, office etc.
But what about all the stuff under my home-folder? Since there's much space left on my installation stick (Fat32 formatted) i think ideal woul be a solution utilizing it.
Is that possible to ,kind of'
- create an archive of /home/<user> (maybe with ark?)
- save it on the USB-stick
- copy it back on the new system
- done ;)

Please kindly note: i've been _spoiled_ in the past using 'xxcopy' an 'xxclone' for decades (http://www.xxclone.com/), which made such tasks and even cloning whole systems  simple & easy as a breeze... and i've read a bit about dd, clonzilla et al. and to be honest, i'm a little bit pessimistic/frighten.

Many thanks in advanve for your hints, ideas, links and answeres!

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Ad1: No problem at all to install the 32-bit 1.8.2. on the new system (ASRock Z77E - it offers a "non-UEFI"-USB-card boot option). Anyway, with a G2030T Processor (and it's very basic HD-Graphics within), it is not possible to change to any resolution higher than 1024x768 in the desktop options (what is somewhat inconvenient).

I think that someone else has had that problem before, i'll try to find that thread... is it possible to force higher resolutions appropriate for the monitor?

bin

Member

From: U.K.

Registered: 2016-01-28

Posts: 1,300

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

2. Since i'm a lazy and practical thinking person  i think about a _simple_ solution, to migrate everything of my home folder (located under /users/<user>) to the new system: Data, mail, some programs, (browser)configurations (!), bookmarks, manuals and so on.
So, first for sure i'll have to proceed the installation process, get the codecs, synaptec, office etc.
But what about all the stuff under my home-folder? Since there's much space left on my installation stick (Fat32 formatted) i think ideal would be a solution utilizing it.
Is that possible to ,kind of'
- create an archive of /home/<user> (maybe with ark?)
- save it on the USB-stick
- copy it back on the new system
- done

Your home folder contains essentially 3 types of files
1. Data, documents, pictures etc
2. Application specific configurations such as .mozilla etc
3. Desktop environment config files - all the stuff that makes Trinity and other stuff work.

You can use Dai's Theme backup tool to take care of all the Trinity config - that covers the appearance, theme, settings etc for Trinity.

You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system - but I wouldn't. Whenever I transfer to a new system, reinstall, or just mess around, I save all my data files, theme backup, and certain key application configuration files. These are .mozilla .thunderbird/.icedove and a number of application specific . files Some of these live in the root of my home, some are in .config, some are in .local

This exercise will help you learn what goes where and how stuff fits together. As you have room on a key, do a straight copy of the whole of your home folder - you may want to exclude .thumbnails as there's no point in it.

Set up your new machine/drive and install the system apps that you want to use. I don't know what these are so I can't tell you what config files you may or may not need. When you start an app for the first time it may look different, have a look in your new and old home folders and find the config file for it. It boils down to trial and error in a lot of cases. Often things like recent file lists will have been stored in a config file somewhere in your home area.

Dai_trying

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2015-12-14

Posts: 2,989

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

I do a lot of installs/re-installs and have sorted all my document folders (Documents | Downloads | Music | Pictures | Videos | bin) onto a separate partition (I label mine DATA for easy reference) and then create symlinks to these in my home folder (after removing the default folders) that way I can share the data across all installations without having to mount and find files that I want to use.

This does not take into consideration any application preferences as I want to share the data between different OS's and sometimes the config files may be different for each version of an application and could cause issues.

Obviously I use my theme-backup utility to share desktop preferences between Q4OS installations which has worked well for me so far.

I would also add that I would use the 64 bit version of the (any) OS as your board will undoubtedly support it and 32 bit applications can be easily added by using multiarch and you could not so easily add a 64 bit application this way. And I have noticed many Distro's dropping support for 32 bit so I guess it will become a more niche area (and less developed) before too much longer. Although you may have reasons to use 32 bit so it might not be so much of a choice then.

HTH
Dai

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Ad1: Anyway, with a G2030T Processor (and it's very basic HD-Graphics within), it is not possible to change to any resolution higher than 1024x768 in the desktop options (what is somewhat inconvenient).

I think that someone else has had that problem before, i'll try to find that thread... is it possible to force higher resolutions appropriate for the monitor?

The solution i found was that one here: http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=64853

Maybe that's interesting for the q4-Team,  to ,support' it by default, because those integrated Intel Graphics become more popular and widely used (for non-gamers users like me - but even Stellarium runs flawlessly with it, even on this very basic HD Graphics version of a 'cheap' G2030T).

Your home folder contains essentially 3 types of files
1. Data, documents, pictures etc
2. Application specific configurations such as .mozilla etc
3. Desktop environment config files - all the stuff that makes Trinity and other stuff work.

Even more than that: i also put some programs there, with the intention to use them in a 'portable' way...

You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system - but I wouldn't...

I would like to - very much! (How) does that work, with a Fat32-USB-Stick?

I do a lot of installs/re-installs and have sorted all my document folders (Documents | Downloads | Music | Pictures | Videos | bin) onto a separate partition

This is _exactly_ what i plan for the future... currently i'm happy to have access to my Windows-Data Partition

Obviously I use my theme-backup utility to share desktop preferences between Q4OS installations which has worked well for me so far. smile

And so do i!  Many thanks for that neat tool btw!

I would also add that I would use the 64 bit version of the (any) OS as your board will undoubtedly support it and 32 bit applications can be easily added by using multiarch and you could not so easily add a 64 bit application this way. And I have noticed many Distro's dropping support for 32 bit so I guess it will become a more niche area (and less developed) before too much longer. Although you may have reasons to use 32 bit so it might not be so much of a choice then.

Well, that's another topic. I appreciate your hint, but (as you wrote above) i personally can live very well with 2 or 4 Gig's of memory and a 250 GB Disk (runnung 2 different os's on it!).
And, if os/application - developers/companies
- drop support vor 32 bit versions,
- drop support for my os,
- offer them only in huge formats and dimensions
- force me to buy newer hardware to run the same applications
- or drop support for older hardware
trust me - i will drop them.

That's indeed the reason why i am here

Dai_trying

Member

From: UK

Registered: 2015-12-14

Posts: 2,989

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

I would also add that I would use the 64 bit version of the (any) OS as your board will undoubtedly support it and 32 bit applications can be easily added by using multiarch and you could not so easily add a 64 bit application this way. And I have noticed many Distro's dropping support for 32 bit so I guess it will become a more niche area (and less developed) before too much longer. Although you may have reasons to use 32 bit so it might not be so much of a choice then.

Well, that's another topic. I appreciate your hint, but (as you wrote above) i personally can live very well with 2 or 4 Gig's of memory and a 250 GB Disk (runnung 2 different os's on it!).
And, if os/application - developers/companies
- drop support vor 32 bit versions,
- drop support for my os,
- offer them only in huge formats and dimensions
- force me to buy newer hardware to run the same applications
- or drop support for older hardware
trust me - i will drop them.

That's indeed the reason why i am here

What I meant is support (and development) will be more aimed towards the 64 bit systems as they are becoming the majority, and it's what the majority want that determines what gets done (normally), I would imagine there will always be 32 bit OS's out there, but with the development work being done for applications using 64 bit instruction set more and more, something will have to lose priority, and so less resources will be given to it. leading to stagnant applications, vulnerable systems etc, etc...
While I would not like to see 32 bit OS's disappear, I have noticed from distrowatch posings that some have dropped 32 bit and others are just offering 64 bit in the first place, so it seems to be a trend that I cannot see reversing.
I do still use two 32 bit systems, one is Mythbuntu (PVR) 32 bit and the other is just an old box running q4os 32 bit which I have to admit rarely gets booted.
Oh one last thing I also run 64 bit OS's with just 2 Gb RAM and pretty low graphics too, and they run without issue,

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Ad1: Anyway, with a G2030T Processor (and it's very basic HD-Graphics within), it is not possible to change to any resolution higher than 1024x768 in the desktop options (what is somewhat inconvenient).
...
Maybe that's interesting for the q4-Team,  to ,support' it by default, because those integrated Intel Graphics become more popular and widely used (for non-gamers users like me - but even Stellarium runs flawlessly with it, even on this very basic HD Graphics version of a 'cheap' G2030T).

No, i was not right: It's an Intel issue, not at all Linux!

Setting up this intel-z77 system with Windows 2 years ago i found - like MANY others - that, after installing intel's vga-driver, the booting ended up with a black screen at the login.

Here is the related "intel's official Black screen" thread:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/39 … 5&tstart=0

Hundreds, if not thousends of users had that problem, all kinds of systems, laptops & desktps, Windows XP, 7, 8, 8.1 and even 10.
I think intel never accomplihed to provide a driver which solved the problems fundamentally.

The workaround's were:
- Use another Monitor,
- Use Microsoft's (age-old) default drivers,
- Use expensive (Dual-Link) DVI-cables
- or, what i did: Use a DVI-> VGA Adapter.

The simple and desillusional fact is: With Q4OS/Linux it works PERFECTLY, out of the box, WITHOUT the DVI->VGA Adapter crutch!

Sorry, i've gotten so adjusted to that adapter at the rear of the PC, it took some houres to try connecting the Monitor the simple and straight way.

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

What I meant is support (and development) will be more aimed towards the 64 bit systems as they are becoming the majority, and it's what the majority want that determines what gets done (normally), I would imagine there will always be 32 bit OS's out there, but with the development work being done for applications using 64 bit instruction set more and more, something will have to lose priority, and so less resources will be given to it. leading to stagnant applications, vulnerable systems etc, etc...
While I would not like to see 32 bit OS's disappear, I have noticed from distrowatch posings that some have dropped 32 bit and others are just offering 64 bit in the first place, so it seems to be a trend that I cannot see reversing.
I do still use two 32 bit systems, one is Mythbuntu (PVR) 32 bit and the other is just an old box running q4os 32 bit which I have to admit rarely gets booted.
Oh one last thing I also run 64 bit OS's with just 2 Gb RAM and pretty low graphics too, and they run without issue,

Thanks again Dai, for sharing these observations and thoughts!

... and it's what the majority want that determines what gets done (normally)

Yes indeed - unfortunately - you're so right. (Last weak i took care of a Win7-laptop of a pal and spotted a _24-GB_ Winsxs folder on it... she - like the majority - argued: i don't bother: there's so much space left on that 500 GB disk...)

I certainly would not have that grand aches running a 64 bit Os on a 2-GB machine, but, it's simply unnecessary...

Back to my ache "of the day": copying the users-folder on a Fat32-usb-stick and restore it to another system:

You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system

I still wonder how to manage this, actually... tar? cp? ark, drag & drop?

bin

Member

From: U.K.

Registered: 2016-01-28

Posts: 1,300

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Back to my ache "of the day": copying the users-folder on a Fat32-usb-stick and restore it to another system:

You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system

I still wonder how to manage this, actually... tar? cp? ark, drag & drop?

I think you have mis-quoted me slightly - what I said was:-
"You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system - but I wouldn't."

Why? Well as suggested it is because of the nature and purpose of the different files you find in your home folder. If you have Q4 on your current machine start up Krusader (I prefer Midnight Commander - sudo apt-get install mc - because it is curses based and therefore works without a gui if required)
Take a look at the structure of ./ folders . files and your normal Documents etc.

Obviously your docs, pics etc are important and you have backups anyway. They are fixed in terms of what they do.

There are some ./folders which are desirable and portable - e.g. ./mozilla or its chrome equivalent - you can just copy and paste that folder and it all just works as before. You may or may not have a local ./fonts or ./themes for gtk themes or ./icons. Some are portable, but will be recreated anyway so what's the point. Some are session files, cache, temporary, thumbnails etc which are not really needed next time round.

Now, you may want to take a look at Google and find out about 'copy symlink fat32' Theme and icon folders contain lots of symlinks so you'd want to tar those. But, you may run into problems if you tar the whole folder as fat 32 gets a bit upset with files at around 4gb and larger.

Other things that may be relevant - depends on a number of factors. Your files are owned by you. There are a few in your folder that are not owned by you. As far as your computer is concerned you are not you - you're just user 1000 - only on some systems you are user 500....... So you have to be aware that copying files via fat 32 affects the full unix permissions range. In your (and my) case this is not a big deal as I stay within the Debian field. However I have occasionally copied files using root/sudo and then wondered why I cannot work on them later.

I use the same system that Dai does in terms of symlinking to permanent folders, this keeps data and config apart.

What I am trying to do here is explain the pitfalls and trips that you can come across. I always take my old drive and connect to new system using external usb adapter - that way I know I won't run in to these problems. I am not going to say 'just copy x to y and it will be fine' because if it isn't you'll then expect me to fix it. What I have tried to do is provide enough hints and pointers for you to try, learn, make mistakes, try again, reach for the backup, start again, look, think, read and generally work it out the hard way.

Good luck!

FlexQ4

Member

Registered: 2017-02-19

Posts: 148

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system

I still wonder how to manage this, actually... tar? cp? ark, drag & drop?

I think you have mis-quoted me slightly - what I said was:-
"You can just copy your entire home folder and dump it onto the new system - but I wouldn't."

An i didn't.
What i actually transferred (via the stick) were some .folders (like .mozilla .moonchild, .thunderbird), the documents-folder and my ,portable programs' folder.
I was a bit insecure, but It worked amazingly good - despite the fact, that the executable files all lost their +x attributes... anyway, this procedure spared me some HOURS of installing firefox, palemoon & thunderbird again, with all of the configurations, settings,  tweaks, add-ons and so on.
And that was exactly what i wanted, sorry, did not know that it's such simple (i choosed krusader) and i thank you for your help!

But this will certainly NOT be the manner for backups/archiving larger amounts of Data in the future! (As a matter of fact, i want to discuss that later)

What I am trying to do here is explain the pitfalls and trips that you can come across. I always take my old drive and connect to new system using external usb adapter - that way I know I won't run in to these problems. I am not going to say 'just copy x to y and it will be fine' because if it isn't you'll then expect me to fix it. What I have tried to do is provide enough hints and pointers for you to try, learn, make mistakes, try again, reach for the backup, start again, look, think, read and generally work it out the hard way.

Now i feel abit sorry/guilty  about writing "migrate everything of my home folder (located under /users/<user>)" in my original post.
That was rather unprecise! Hope i could clear up my intention with the aftermath above, and i pledge to be more precise in my future posts!
And, once again: many thanks for your kind help and support!!
Best Regards!
Flex

bin

Member

From: U.K.

Registered: 2016-01-28

Posts: 1,300

Re: Installation Q4OS on a new (UEFI) machine

Well done my friend - I'm glad you got there. If I'd known you were a palemoon user I'd have warned you to tar that - and indeed if you have other executables in your home then the same would have applied. However it's all good experience and that's what counts.

There are a couple of interesting threads on backups in the forum.