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#1 2017-12-30 18:29

ichbin1199
Member
From: France
Registered: 2016-02-09
Posts: 34

About Q4OS menu structure

Hi!

I have a question about the menu layout in Q4OS. The default is called Q4OS menu structure but we can choose the categories menu structure in the welcome menu. I myself always choose the categories structure because I find it more intuitive and easy to use for me and for the people for whom I install that system. I also noticed that a lot of youtubers that do some reviews about Q4OS seem a little bit confused with the default layout and they are sometimes not able to find applications in it (they don't know that they have to go to accessories to reach categories). I guess there's must be a good reason for the Q4OS team to choose that kind of layout by default but I wonder if the other would not be better for the new and average users.

Thank you for telling me what you thing about it if you're interested in the topic.


Samsung Q1 Ultra Premium umpc, (1.33ghz Intel core solo, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity+Compaq  CQ2301 (1.6ghzx2 Intel Atom 230, 1gb ram, used as a server)/Q4OS Orion/Trinity+Packard bell D2317 (2.2ghzx2 Intel Pentium, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity

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#2 2017-12-30 18:51

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

If youll look at this thread youll see that issue is already being worked on, that will more than likely make Debonaire the default in future Q4OS versions(I think youve already posted in that thread but posted to be sure).

www.q4os.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1980

Finding apps hasnt been a major issue overall in most of the major reviews, forums and side reviews Ive seen, but the dated look of Q4OS has been an issue for many.

I actually ended up using the KDE_classic theme from Lookswitcher as I always loved the KDE 3.5 menu and its compact and easy to use. Its also a bit nostalgic for me as KDE 3.5 brings back great memories.

Last edited by crosscourt (2017-12-30 19:55)

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#3 2017-12-30 20:42

Dai_trying
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 2,244
Website

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I have to agree that the categorized menu structure would be more intuitive (hence easier to use) to a new user, and I always set my menu to the classic style but keep the q4os structure as I have become accustomed to it. but I also think it could be beneficial to use categories as the default.

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#4 2017-12-30 20:45

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Agreed as the KDE_classic menu is categorized and thus is more compact.  Till recently i had been using the classic style with Q4OS structure.

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#5 2017-12-30 21:34

tlmiller76
Member
From: AZ, USA
Registered: 2016-11-29
Posts: 280

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I have to admit, I loathe the q4os structure.  Too many submenu's for my tastes.


q4os machine:  Acer Aspire 1 14:  Intel Celeron N3450/4 GB DDR3/32 GB eMMC/Qualcomm QCA9377AC + BT/Intel HD 500/14" 1920x1080 LCD

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#6 2017-12-30 21:37

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Agree tlmiller but Dai and I have been using it so long you just get use to it. When I went back to using XFCE I decided to switch to the more compact KDE_classic theme/menu in TDE and have really enjoyed it.  Its also a good theme for newbies.

Q4OS structure reminds me of Windows 98 menu.

Last edited by crosscourt (2017-12-30 21:38)

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#7 2017-12-31 17:35

ichbin1199
Member
From: France
Registered: 2016-02-09
Posts: 34

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

crosscourt wrote:

Agree tlmiller but Dai and I have been using it so long you just get use to it.

Yes, but what about new users?



crosscourt wrote:

Q4OS structure reminds me of Windows 98 menu.

Yes but tomorrow is 2018, 20 years after windows 98! Maybe we should go forward and leave windows 98 and XP behind.

Anyway, happy new year to all the members of the forum and to the Q4OS team!!!!


Samsung Q1 Ultra Premium umpc, (1.33ghz Intel core solo, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity+Compaq  CQ2301 (1.6ghzx2 Intel Atom 230, 1gb ram, used as a server)/Q4OS Orion/Trinity+Packard bell D2317 (2.2ghzx2 Intel Pentium, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity

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#8 2017-12-31 18:25

Dai_trying
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 2,244
Website

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

ichbin1199 wrote:
crosscourt wrote:

Agree tlmiller but Dai and I have been using it so long you just get use to it.

Yes, but what about new users?

Please see #3 for my opinion smile the fact that I use the default menu structure is mainly based on the fact that when I use an OS I try to keep as much as I can to the default desktop and layout, I find it leads to less issues as it is what the developers decided (for whatever reason) to use.

ichbin1199 wrote:
crosscourt wrote:

Q4OS structure reminds me of Windows 98 menu.

Yes but tomorrow is 2018, 20 years after windows 98! Maybe we should go forward and leave windows 98 and XP behind.

Move forward, yes definitely... leave current structure behind?... I'm not so sure, I do think it would be better kept as an alternative for those wanting a more "retro" desktop and still be available from the look switcher as it has become quite popular simply because of it's unique (in newer OS's) look.

ichbin1199 wrote:

Anyway, happy new year to all the members of the forum and to the Q4OS team!!!!

And wishing the best the new year can offer to everyone, members, developers, readers, their/your children/pets/neighbours and anyone else I may have missed. smile

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#9 2017-12-31 21:42

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Ichbin, depends on who the new user is, as I have 80 year olds happily using the default Q4OS menu structure and having a ball.

In regards to win98 many people still like menus of that design and WinXP is the most copied OS menu in Linux as Q4OS has XPQ4 which is very popular,

Its all about perspective and what people find comfortable and easy to use. I dont want to pidgeon hole anybody and as long as we show them Q4OS has alternative theme/menus, they will find what they like as they learn more about Linux. Thats the way it happened for me.

I also agree that many times keeping things more default tends to lead to less issues and for beginners initially is a must.

In regards to New Years Ive already posted a thread in off topic, enjoy!

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#10 2018-01-01 18:04

ichbin1199
Member
From: France
Registered: 2016-02-09
Posts: 34

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Dai_trying wrote:

Move forward, yes definitely... leave current structure behind?... I'm not so sure, I do think it would be better kept as an alternative for those wanting a more "retro" desktop and still be available from the look switcher

Yes, I totally agree with that.



crosscourt wrote:

Ichbin, depends on who the new user is

I was thinking about any new users. Some of them come from Windows, other come from Linux and other come from nothing as they begin to use computers. My point is this: I don't speak about the menu style, look and feel, I only talk about the structure and I think it's obvious that the category menu is more intuitive and easy to use because it directly shows categories of software so anybody knows where to search any application. It's easy to understand for brand new users of computers and for windows users too. For Linux users, it's just the regular way.

The Q4OS strucure is less intuitive. When you go to programs, you see the accessories menu and the program installed with the Q4OS installer in folders. If you want to reach VLC for example, you have to go programs->vlc>vlc instead of multimedia->vlc. directly (and there you can see all others multimedia related applications).You can also reach vlc by doing programs->accessories->multimedia->vlc.(so it doubles vlc menu entry and all other Q4OS applications installed).
For most people, accessories means accessories (some small utilities) so sometimes they won't know that they can find categories here with all programs installed, even those that they don't see in general menu. The benefit of that layout in the other hand is the uninstall option (nethertheless, some users could be confused with the fact that some progams have that option and others not).

So I agree with Dai-trying when he says Q4OS structure should be the alternative, and not the default layout.

Anyway, thank you all for your thoughts about this subject, and once again happy new year to you.


Samsung Q1 Ultra Premium umpc, (1.33ghz Intel core solo, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity+Compaq  CQ2301 (1.6ghzx2 Intel Atom 230, 1gb ram, used as a server)/Q4OS Orion/Trinity+Packard bell D2317 (2.2ghzx2 Intel Pentium, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity

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#11 2018-01-01 18:48

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I understand your point Ichbin and Im mainly talking about the menu structure, but people are so different in the way they approach tasks and some actually dont find the Q4OS menu structure an issue.  I do agree with you as i prefer the categorized menu but i want to maintain multiple choices for users.

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#12 2018-01-01 23:51

tlmiller76
Member
From: AZ, USA
Registered: 2016-11-29
Posts: 280

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I agree with Ichbin that the category structure would be easier for new users, and that it should be the default.  If a new user that knows nothing about linux wants to play music, which is easier to know to look in, a menu called "multimedia" or a menu called "accessories"?  Well, obviously multimedia, since that's what music is.  Keep the q4os structure for those that like it, but given that q4os tries to cater to Windows converts, category structure simply makes more sense as the default.


q4os machine:  Acer Aspire 1 14:  Intel Celeron N3450/4 GB DDR3/32 GB eMMC/Qualcomm QCA9377AC + BT/Intel HD 500/14" 1920x1080 LCD

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#13 2018-01-02 01:57

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I think we all agree thatthe  categorized menu is preferable, but again lets keep other options as well for those who want them.

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#14 2018-01-02 17:14

ichbin1199
Member
From: France
Registered: 2016-02-09
Posts: 34

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

tlmiller76 wrote:

If a new user that knows nothing about linux wants to play music, which is easier to know to look in, a menu called "multimedia" or a menu called "accessories"?

Yes, that's exactly what I think. 


crosscourt wrote:

lets keep other options as well for those who want them

Yes, of course! wink


I would at least suggest to rename the "accessories" item in the Q4OS structure menu. "All applications" or even "Categories" would me more explicit in my point of view.


Samsung Q1 Ultra Premium umpc, (1.33ghz Intel core solo, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity+Compaq  CQ2301 (1.6ghzx2 Intel Atom 230, 1gb ram, used as a server)/Q4OS Orion/Trinity+Packard bell D2317 (2.2ghzx2 Intel Pentium, 2gb ram)/Q4OS Scorpion/Trinity

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#15 2018-01-02 21:14

crosscourt
Member
Registered: 2017-05-07
Posts: 1,475

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Devs will have to figure out how they  want to approach that and who knows they may make a wholesale change to categorized menus.

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#16 2018-01-02 23:43

q4osteam
Q4OS Team
Registered: 2015-12-06
Posts: 1,794
Website

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Thanks everybody for the suggestions. We will start an internal debate about a menu structure, but the main intention to keep the Q4OS structure as default is a conviction, that number of applications will be decentralized and maintained off of the core repositories in a future, and such applications could use more shortcuts in different categories. The categories menu structure wouldn't be so transparent in such situation.

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#17 2018-05-31 13:38

tuk0z
Member
Registered: 2018-05-29
Posts: 5

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

I'm glad @ichbin1199 and you guys opened this thread.

If I may summarize my POV:
- TDE/Classic choice is a nice point IMHO and should fit more tastes than just one smile
- Programs being scattered in sub+++ categories in the menu is a logical barrier IMHO on a distro with that high level of polish and GUI goodness/simpleness+choice.

To be more specific, access to the installed programs is the one point slightly blocking me to recommend/install Q4OS 2.4. This is as

1. access to said programs is cumbersome by default for all new users using the GUI,

  E.g. Ms Smith wants to open her notes. Opens Konqueror file manager and navigate to the appropriate folder, then

  a) right click on 'Notes' (yeah she's of those who forget to set the file extension) then
  b) clic 'Programs', then search with no clue... then is just lost. Or
  c) clic 'Accessories', then 'Utilities', then 'Text Editors' then 'Kwrite' or something.
  d) then goes have a coffee ':-|
2. uneasy to edit at first glance.

  Please is there a way to set the applications categories once and for all? On most other DE (and even WM) this is set in the package metadata && '.desktop' file (eg: Type=Application Categories=Game;). Hmm there's no way I'll manually move one new installed/updated application after another to its more logical/accessible place in the menu structure, like Windoze forced me to do when I used it back in the years.

EDIT

crosscourt wrote:

If youll look at this thread youll see that issue is already being worked on, that will more than likely make Debonaire the default in future Q4OS versions(I think youve already posted in that thread but posted to be sure).

www.q4os.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1980
...
I actually ended up using the KDE_classic theme from Lookswitcher as I always loved the KDE 3.5 menu and its compact and easy to use. Its also a bit nostalgic for me as KDE 3.5 brings back great memories.

It looks like Debonaire handles the applications categories perfectly, on top of being KISS & nice to my eyes smile Thx to the team and to @crosscourt for the link. Now I'll use it a bit and do some testing on the performance side.

Last edited by tuk0z (2018-05-31 13:52)

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#18 2018-05-31 14:02

Dai_trying
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 2,244
Website

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

Did you try the categorised menu structure? it sounds like it would be a fit for your needs.

To try it out simply go to the welcome screen and click Switch to Kickoff start menu (this should just be called switch main menu or something IMO) and select Categories as the menu structure, click apply and see if it is more to your liking/expectation.

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#19 2018-05-31 19:52

tuk0z
Member
Registered: 2018-05-29
Posts: 5

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

@Dai_trying I tried all menus (and DE styles) I could see. Never saw a "categorised menu structure" (or similar wording) though.
Again, Debonaire takes good care of putting the installed applications in their Menu folders. Also it is as performant as the default DE/style on the old Atom cpu I'm testing (no measurable impact at all), and looks nice to my eyes. I wasn't asking for anything more smile

For the record, I do test distros for our local digital initiatives, and have done that for quite some time. Otherwise I'm *personally* not ("found"? is that correct English? I doubt it) crazy about using GUI and mouse.
Sorry I haven't presented myself yet on the forum.

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#20 2018-05-31 20:15

Dai_trying
Member
From: UK
Registered: 2015-12-14
Posts: 2,244
Website

Re: About Q4OS menu structure

You would need to access this from The Welcome Screen, if you have told it not to display you can get to it using right click desktop -> Run Command -> (type) welcome-screen.exu -> (click) Run

HBlpj4U.png

Then select the Switch to Kickoff start menu and you will be presented with this menu

pgzuuRq.png

As you can see in this menu there is an option to use "categories" as the Menu Structure

Hope this helps smile

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